Thundercats Episode 21 Birth of the Blade Discussion

[Sining]

well, it is a birth of blades thread and we're always intr in talking about the episode, provided it's new things being said. we just drifted onto the other topic because for the rest of us, we finished talking about the episode. without any outside stimulation, there won't be any new discussion on the episode as it is.

Plus it's an internet forum. You seriously don't need to ask.

[FreakinZoid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

The only things I've seen similar to the WS comics are circumstantial similarities. Everyone quotes Tygra and Cheetara being a couple and Dobo as being refrences to the comics, but is there anything else? I mean the couple thing could've came from just their heads. And as for Dobo there's only so many ways you can draw a guy with a doberman head as most dobermans have the exact same fur patterns. Having a dog that's the same species as another dog character isn't enough to say "oh he's a copy of that guy!" Their personalties were different, their clothing was different, and their circumstances were different. When the only thing you have to go on is that their species is the same it's not a copy.

While the T/C pairing could have come from their heads, it is also an equal possibility it came from the comics as well.

Dobo and DoberLord...just because the characters look somewhat different doesn't mean they weren't based off the same overall design. Let's be real; there are more than one way to draw a guy with a dobermans head. Even subtle differences like uncroped ears could have been used to provide a bit more distinction betwen the two. I wouldn't say their personalities were all that different either. Certain circumstances are also similar such as the warrior backgrounds. I'd hardly say different clothing merits different characters. That's kind of like saying a character in a video game ceases to be the same character when an alterante skin is applied.

Not all Dobermans have the same fur pattern. My brother-in-law raises dogs - many of which are dobermans and very few have the exact same fur patterns. Mostly only those of the exact same litter and even then, there are many subtle differences.


I've also read where Pumyra's reaction to Lion-O in "The Pit" was very similar to Cheetara's reaction to Lion-O in the comics. When I went and flipped through the pages and re-watched "The Pit," I've got to say, they were very similar.

In many ways, the way Tygra and Cheetara meet as youths is very similar to how WilyKit and her beau meet in the comics.


It could all be coincidence or perhaps not. Guess it all goes back to perception.

Remember, what you might percieve as circumstantial, others might not.

[Singe]

If there was abridged version of TC similar to TeamFourStar does to DBZ, Lion-O would have offered Dobo a box of Scooby Snacks for Pumyra's release.

[AnonymousIncognito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinZoid

While the T/C pairing could have come from their heads, it is also an equal possibility it came from the comics as well.

Dobo and DoberLord...just because the characters look somewhat different doesn't mean they weren't based off the same overall design. Let's be real; there are more than one way to draw a guy with a dobermans head. Even subtle differences like uncroped ears could have been used to provide a bit more distinction betwen the two. I wouldn't say their personalities were all that different either. Certain circumstances are also similar such as the warrior backgrounds. I'd hardly say different clothing merits different characters. That's kind of like saying a character in a video game ceases to be the same character when an alterante skin is applied.

Not all Dobermans have the same fur pattern. My brother-in-law raises dogs - many of which are dobermans and very few have the exact same fur patterns. Mostly only those of the exact same litter and even then, there are many subtle differences.


I've also read where Pumyra's reaction to Lion-O in "The Pit" was very similar to Cheetara's reaction to Lion-O in the comics. When I went and flipped through the pages and re-watched "The Pit," I've got to say, they were very similar.

In many ways, the way Tygra and Cheetara meet as youths is very similar to how WilyKit and her beau meet in the comics.


It could all be coincidence or perhaps not. Guess it all goes back to perception.

Remember, what you might percieve as circumstantial, others might not.

Balgus tends to overlook facts like things don't have to be a 100% scene by scene, frame by frame, or panel by panel exact match between the show and comic for the crew to have referenced/drawn heavily from the comic.

Heck, look at Alex Haley and Harold Courlander. Haley "referenced" (plagiarized) 81 passages of Courlanders book "The African" to write "Roots" even though Haley swore he'd never read "The Aftrican" before. It was later proven that Haley had in fact read it and did in fact own a copy prior to writing "Roots" which is why "Roots" always will be classified as fiction.

Just because certain Crew members claim the comic isn't being used doesn't mean it isn't being used. The TC Crew seem to love "misdirection" so one must take everything they say with a grain of salt.

[FreakinZoid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito

Balgus tends to overlook facts like things don't have to be a 100% scene by scene, frame by frame, or panel by panel exact match between the show and comic for the crew to have referenced/drawn heavily from the comic.

Heck, look at Alex Haley and Harold Courlander. Haley "referenced" (plagiarized) 81 passages of Courlanders book "The African" to write "Roots" even though Haley swore he'd never read "The Aftrican" before. It was later proven that Haley had in fact read it and did in fact own a copy prior to writing "Roots" which is why "Roots" always will be classified as fiction.

Just because certain Crew members claim the comic isn't being used doesn't mean it isn't being used. The TC Crew seem to love "misdirection" so one must take everything they say with a grain of salt.

A lot of people tend to make the same mistake Balgus did. It's quite common.

You make a good point about Alex Haley and "Roots."

One could also cite shows like "Revenge" which heavily references "The Count de Monte Cristo."
You can see all the characters from the Dumas classic are there but they aren't dressed the same nor are the genders the same.

[Balgus82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito

Balgus tends to overlook facts like things don't have to be a 100% scene by scene, frame by frame, or panel by panel exact match between the show and comic for the crew to have referenced/drawn heavily from the comic.

Having one couple together and one character that's the same species as another is not "drawing heavily." From that rationale the Drifter was obviously a rip-off of Bugs Bunny and the Petelars copy Swamp Thing.

Frankly there's no reason for them to lie about it. Your example was someone who plagiarized another book. This is a reboot. Warner Brothers owns the rights to all the Thundercats characters including the ones from the comics as WB owns DC. They don't have to lie to protect themselves against plagiarizing because it's the same franchise and their company already owns the characters. If they wanted to use the characters from those comics they could without having to change the name, design, and personalities to do it.

[FreakinZoid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balgus82

Having one couple together and one character that's the same species as another is not "drawing heavily." From that rationale the Drifter was obviously a rip-off of Bugs Bunny and the Petelars copy Swamp Thing.

Frankly there's no reason for them to lie about it. Your example was someone who plagiarized another book. This is a reboot. Warner Brothers owns the rights to all the Thundercats characters including the ones from the comics as WB owns DC. They don't have to lie to protect themselves against plagiarizing because it's the same franchise and their company already owns the characters. If they wanted to use the characters from those comics they could without having to change the name, design, and personalities to do it.

While it might not seem that way to you, it can seem that way to others. Again, I must point out perception.

I'd say the Drifter is more like Usagi Yojimbo and the Petlars more like a Bellossom.

But in all honesty, you really do need to put some more work into your comparrisons. Not trying to start any kind of complaintfest but I've noticed more often than not, you seem to resort to the most extreme and outlandish of choices.


Well, given the poor reception of the comics and the resulting fan fall-out, I can see where the crew and WB would want/need to disavow using it as reference/inspiration/whatever.

.
I have also seen it posted that many of the TC crew are former DC employees and if that is true, it does lend weight to the thory that the comics are being used. DC employees would at least know of the comic and some of what it contains.
The fact that WB owns ThunderCats as well as DC comics doesn't help dispell the theory either. If anything, it also adds support to the theory.

I think you might have miscomprehended the example used by AI. I could be wrong but what I got from it was that Haley claimed to have never read "The African" and denied using any of it to pen his own story when in actuality, he had and that members of the TC crew have claimed they never read the ThunderCats comics yet what they produce is so similar to the comics, it is difficult to believe they never picked up an issue.

[PussyCatDoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by L08e16o

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonymousIncognito

I still hold my issue with that flower scene was it showed Lion-O never even stood a chance with Cheetara. Cheetara never knew him, never knew of his qualities, never knew of his struggles and doubts. If Cheetara had known of Lion-O and witnessed how he was treated by the kingdom, his own family, and most of all Tygra, I am inclined to believe that it would have taken more than a flower for Tygra to win her heart.

That is why I - like many others - have such an issue with Cheetara's line to Lion-o that Tygra was in his shadow. Based on how Lion-O's life was and how he was treated, he was the one in Tygra's shadow.


I'm hoping the crew doesn't screw things up like they've done before.

If Cheetara was present at the bell games, if only she knew how Tygra taunts Lion-o being "second best other than the crown", I think she will have to rethink her decision over. After all, kids change as they grow up. And what if she has to bodyguard Lion-o all the time since she is the head cleric after Jaga? I am not going to lie that there won't be jealousy issues in the future.